Game 4 Preview: What're we going to learn about Karl and the Nuggets tonight?...

by Andrew Feinstein on Apr 28, 2008 1:07 AM MDT

I haven't been writing previews for each of the Nuggets playoff games against the Los Angeles Lakers because, really, what's the point? As long as head coach George Karl refuses to make substantive adjustments from game to game, why should we as fans believe that the outcome of each contest will be different from the previous blowout loss?

But going into what could very well be the Nuggets last game of the season when they face the Lakers in Game 4 at Pepsi Center tonight, it's worth mentioning that this game - like Game 3 - will tell us almost everything about Karl's relationship with this current group of Nuggets players. Which is why I find it most peculiar that the Denver media is reporting that Karl's job is safe at this juncture. If this is true, while it doesn't quite rival New York Knicks owner James Dolan giving Isiah Thomas a contract extension in the middle of the 2006-07 season (which Thomas rewarded Dolan by finishing the season 33-49), it's almost as inane.

But we'll address Karl's future at the end of this post, and in more detail when the season is officially over.

For now, I want to focus on whether or not Karl has lost this team internally (as Chris Webber suggested on TNT yesterday), or if these players are willing to go to the mat for him one more time and thank the hometown fans for allocating their hard-earned money towards playoff tickets.

If Carmelo Anthony's "just don't sit there!!" fourth quarter tirade aimed at Karl or his "from the coaches to the players, we quit" post-game tirade are any indication, Karl has already lost Carmelo...not that that's hard to do. And it should be noted that Melo has been just as much of a dud as a player in this series as Karl has been as a coach.

Forgetting Melo's words and (in)actions - something the Nuggets organization might consider doing permanently - what Nuggets fans should pay the most attention to tonight is how veterans with NBA Finals experience and enormous paychecks like Allen Iverson, Marcus Camby and Kenyon Martin respond to being yanked early in Game 3 ... something Karl waited until the 85th game of the season to do. When asked by TNT's Craig Sager why he thinks Karl took him out of the game, Iverson retorted "ask him" and said he was insulted, but then - as diplomatically as possible - said "he’s the coach and he was doing what was best for the team." Let's see if his actions mirror his words.

And what about the rest of the team? Will Linas Kleiza, J.R. Smith and Eduardo Najera continue to put their heads down and go hard to the hole risking injury on every possession? Or will they just take it easy, go through the motions and get their off-season vacations started as soon as possible?

I personally believe Karl lost this group a long time ago. Maybe it was during the playoffs last season when he threw J.R. Smith under the bus for the team's failure to beat the San Antonio Spurs. Maybe it was during this season when Karl refused to get technicals or work the refs on behalf of his players. Regardless of "when" it happened, it's inexplicable to me as to why management would load up a roster with so many talented and yet untradeable players (due to the contracts offered by said management), and then back the coach who's incapable of getting anything out of those players...for four consecutive years!

But maybe Game 3 was just a frustration-driven aberration as Karl has suggested (just like Games 1 and 2 were aberrations, and the 50 or so regular season games in which the Nuggets didn't play hard for Karl were aberrations). Maybe these Nuggets players actually like Karl after all, and are ready for another go-around with him in 2008-09.

I guess we'll know for sure after tonight.

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I've been reading this site for a while, and the more I've read, the more you've convinced me about the need to fire George Karl. We agree on a lot of counts when it comes to the game of basketball. But I totally disagree with you about Carmelo. Yes, he's been playing shitty in this series, but I think a major part of the reason is because he's not happy with George Karl, and for the many reasons you have given, I don't blame Carmelo. Carmelo is an excellent scorer who shoots at a significantly higher percentage than AI, is much more efficient on offense in terms of turnovers and offensive rebounds, and yet for some reason the George Karl "offense" has Allen Iverson dribbling the ball for 90% of Nuggets possessions. Karl doesn't involve Carmelo in his system nearly as much as he involves AI, and yet Melo still finds away to, for the most part, play very efficiently on offense. Now for his defense, we only need Larry Brown. I've always felt Carmelo tends to do better under coaches who don't go easy on him (see Boeheim, his high school coach); Larry Brown, despite having a previous bad experience with Carmelo, could really whip Carmelo into shape as a more consistent offensive and defensive player. I'm willing to give AI a second chance under a different coach, but if he continues to play the way he's played under George Karl, constantly dribbling and taking lots of impossible shots instead of driving and passing more, I think he has to go. The Nuggets could buy out KMart's and Nene's contracts (nobody will trade for contracts like that), trade AI for a decent passing-minded point guard or defensive-minded, athletic power forward (josh smith, anyone?), and have some cap space to pick up a good free agent at the other position. In addition to hiring Larry Brown, the Nuggets would be set to make a run for the title, with Carmelo as their leader, hopefully more disciplined under Brown.

by Anonymous on Apr 28, 2008 1:07 AM MDT reply actions

George Karl needs to go but this site is atrocious.

by Anonymous on Apr 28, 2008 2:16 AM MDT reply actions

Anon- I can't sit here and listen to you back Carmelo like that. Don't get me wrong, I love the kid, but the bottom line is that he's playing like a high schooler, and needs to have his ass enjoy some quality bench time. I think he should have been the first one on the bench on Sunday, not AI. Melo's defense is the most disgusting thing in the sport of basketball. My 80-year-old grandmother could cover better. His offensive ability is not a question, he's got what it takes, but he's the laziest guy in the NBA. Everyone always talks about how the superstars should be making their teammates better, not just scoring, well Melo hasn't done either. Lately he's gotten back into this thing where get gets the ball, holds it from 5-10 seconds, makes up his mind about what he's going to do, holds it for a few more seconds and then jacks up a jumper. This is the same shit he did when Karl first came here. But they were able to work through it, and Melo would get the ball and make a decision quicker, now he doesn't, and I think that's on the coach. If your star isn't playing the way he should, both offensively and defensively, call him out, personally. Not in the news papers like the 'oh so mature' Karl has done before, but pull him aside like a man, and tell him what's up. If he doesn't respond, show him a seat on the bench. Karl is supposed to be the coach of this team, the head coach, and last time I checked, the coach is the leader, the enforcer, the parent, and the teacher. The only thing that George Karl has been is the observer. He was the quietest guy in the Pepsi Center on Sunday, and quiet frankly, I saw little kids sleeping that showed more interest that Karl did. He goes through about 20 cough drops per game... USE YOUR GODDAMN VOICE. What the hell does he need cough drops for? The man barely whispers. The trifecta of captains needs to relinquish their titles to Steve Hess, because he's about the only person in the organization that has show any enthusiasm or drive in the past few months. WAKE UP, changes need to be made, and the right people need to be held accountable. Don't blame JR Smith, who feels like he's playing on eggshells every time he's on the court, the people who write the checks need to remind themselves why they write them, and they need to remind the ones who receive them, especially the larger ones, why they deserve them.

by aj on Apr 28, 2008 2:29 AM MDT reply actions

sayonara nougats =))

by Anonymous on Apr 28, 2008 5:35 AM MDT reply actions

Look on the brightside, Denver and its fans got 4 quality postseason games with team that are favorites to win the conference finals and possibly a championship. That's an honor only 3 other teams will have.

by L4k3r f4n on Apr 28, 2008 5:54 AM MDT reply actions

Hold on about Melo.

(This is directed at Bashers)

Can you say team USA and coach K?

If Melo played on a "team," instead of a trainwreck, a "team" with a real scheme and a real point guard to run it, with real role players (like the Lakers), then Melo would be the greatest thing since sliced bread. Easily.

Melo is not LeBron -- he can't run the show, he must be part of it -- a BIG part, obviously.

As I said on another thread, Melo has not known anything (outside the USA squad) that was not totally dysfunctional. Keep Melo and dump many of the others ...

A decent coach (eg. K at Duke) would jump at the chance to coach the Melo... -- this excludes no longer Furious George.

by Anonymous on Apr 28, 2008 6:08 AM MDT reply actions

I can't believe how short sighted people are. The Carmelo haters need to step back for a second.

Look, I'm not defending the guy's play on Saturday. He couldn't hit water if he fell out of a boat, etc.

But the guy did what, 24/7/3 this year? He's a perennial all-star, and has loads of talent.

But despite what people think, this isn't the And-1 Tournament. This is the NBA. It requires X's and O's and strategy. None of which Karl has given them.

Look, they shot the ball terribly the other night (I'm including AI in that too) but the fact is, we have no ball movement and nothing that resembles an offense. It looks like a pick-up league.

They need X's and O's. I guarantee you, Phil Jackson's triangle offense (just as an example) would take the Nuggets to the Championship. We need a real coach.

by Chris C. on Apr 28, 2008 7:33 AM MDT reply actions

If you haven't realized about Carmelo is that he can't beat people off the dribble. For crying out loud he can't beat Randmonovic off the dribble.
As far as a descent point guard that someone asked for. Well that could be good but we would not be better. Even when Miller was here the Nuggets were still a terrible team, Melo still never passed the ball.
One of the reasons why AI holds the ball so long is because Karl has no offensive plays when Melo and AI are on the floor. However when AI and Kleiza are on the court instead of Carmelo ball movement explodes.
The fundamental problem with the Nuggets is the coach. A coach is supposed to put his team in the best position to win a game. Karl has not done that here and has not done that most of the season. The Nuggets won more off talent than great coaching.

by j2y2k3 on Apr 28, 2008 7:33 AM MDT reply actions

Well Andre Miller would of been much better here if George the Great let him actually play point and not two guard. He ran the ball through Boykins what a joke that was. AI plays like earl dribble the clock out get 90% of your assist on jumpers from players with the shot clock running out. A real point guard (AKA Andre Miller)gets assist on dunks, lay ups, easy not forced jumpers. AI has slowed Melo's growth period.

by Anonymous on Apr 28, 2008 9:08 AM MDT reply actions

Anyone who has been watching the "effort" devensively from Camby and Kenyon and Iverson knows what Melo is talking about. Just because Camby was runner-up for defensive player of the year doesn't mean he's any good at really shutting someone down. Melo obviously needs some direction and most importantly a point guard, not a short shooting guard who dribbles too much. Karl has lost this team but he has lost the older guys, they simply aren't giving 100%. Obviously Melo is frustrated but that would change if he got to play with hard working young players who care as much as Kleiza obviously does. The old guys need to go, they've only got a year or two left anyway. Bring in some young guys who will really hustle and you'll see a whole different team. If they aren't going to get rid of Karl, at least bring in guys that are coachable.

by Anonymous on Apr 28, 2008 11:11 AM MDT reply actions

if you guys remember, before carmelo's 15 game suspension and the AI trade, Carmelo was averaging 30+ ppg on 50%+ shooting, he was making his teammates better, and the Nuggets were winning a lot of games. Sure they weren't really going anywhere with Andre Miller, but I'm not so sure that was Miller's fault as much as it was Karl's. Since AI has been on the Nuggets, Carmelo has struggled to find his place on the team, because AI hogs the ball all the freaking time. AI needs to go if he keeps dribbling the ball like he does. Yes, Carmelo has struggled in this series, but he's been frustrated which has resulted in a lack of focus. I think a change in coaches, along with actually allowing him to take the lead role on the team instead of AI, would change that for Melo.

by Anonymous on Apr 28, 2008 12:03 PM MDT reply actions

Woo hoo! We got game 4! It's in the bag. I'm going to get really drunk and pass out in my seat.

by viracocha303 on Apr 28, 2008 12:14 PM MDT reply actions

also, the nuggets record when carmelo scores 30+ points in a game is 17-7. His stats are significantly better in games the Nuggets have won. Look it up if you don't believe me. AI, on the other hand, has about equal stats in games won and games lost, with one exception: he averages almost 2 more assists per game in games won. What this tells me is that when AI distributes the ball, Carmelo gets more involved, and this in turn results in more open shots for the rest of the Nuggets. This tells me that Carmelo's shortcomings this year are often a result of AI not passing the ball as well as he can. What are AI's passing stats in the Laker's series? 5.3 apg, whereas his stats when the Nuggets have won this season are 7.8 apg. AI is older, and just like Carmelo has not had much success in the playoffs. It makes a lot more sense to trade AI than Melo since Melo can be around for another 10-15 years, whereas AI will be for 5 at most. Carmelo's defense, as I've said before, can improve under a coach who is more willing to get at him on that. George Karl likes to talk "defense, defense, defense" but I get the feeling he is just that: all talk. He's been all talk his entire career, coaching incredibly talented teams to their demise.

by Anonymous on Apr 28, 2008 12:27 PM MDT reply actions

Where the hell have all these Melo haters been hiding? Its been said, but this trainwreck of a team is not on Melo, the blame has to be put on the Nuggs management. When no one has any real clue as to who is in charge of the team, making it impossible for anyone to assume responsibility for building this team, that is the real problem. No one on top is held accountable because no one knows who to blame.

Go ahead and blame Melo for not disappearing in these playoffs, but he isn't Lebron and its unfair to expect him to be. Obviously he thrives on a team with a real system (Syracuse, Team USA) and the Nuggets management have failed miserably at building a cohesive team.

Also, as much as I hate Karl and want to blame him for this mess, you have to remember that he was devastated to see Andre Miller go.

The Nuggs need a real GM, not this bullshit headless management thing they've got going.

Lets hold the people accountable that actually deserve the blame and leave the undeserving out of it.

by Harris on Apr 28, 2008 2:09 PM MDT reply actions

First off, can I get anybody who will agree with me that we were better last year and should have resigned Steve Blake?
Secondly, from the beginning since AI came to the Nuggets, Karl has made AI play like he did in the Sixers, where he had no talent and no chemistry. AI said he didn't want to be the star of this team yet George Karl basically plays him like he is. AI said I will play any role you want me to play but he said play the same way you play right now.
Anyone who's seen AI at All-star games or the Olympics, will notice that on his own he is actually never trying to score, especially in the beginning.He is always looking to set up guys. Nobody knows how much talent he has on a team more than AI, but yet GK wants him to score and not set people up that's why he barely gets the chance to play PG.
Another thing, Kleiza and Nene even Najera vastly improved after Iverson showed up. Even Diawara was getting better and was in the starting line-up for a bit. If AI didn't improve Carmelo's game he has got to be the problem.
It's not about numbers, in fact for this team to reach its full potential, I believe Carmelo has to sacrifice scoring to be a better all-round passer and defender. Melo is too big and long to be abused like he gets. (I still cringe when I remember him getting crossed-over by Nash) Why do you think he complains so much about double teams, because he always wants to score instead of giving the ball up.
Carmelo and Amare are the same players. As long as they are scoring nobody sees their weaknesses but when they aren't you begin to see that these guys are really selfish, and would rather give an opponent the opportunity to draw a charge instead of pass the ball up for a 3-pointer.
At the end though, George Karl is responsible for everything. Since the beginning of the season you could tell he and his stars are on different pages. Iverson says this team can win 60 games, Karl says they'll be lucky if they win 55, surprise they win 50. AI is pissed off at the Sacramento loss, saying we cant lose a game like this, we are better than this. Karl...says we did most things right, they just played better. Carmelo says, yes trade for Artest, that be great, Karl says...I don't think we need Artest, I think we can win a championship the way we are now.

You see what I mean...

by Anonymous on Apr 28, 2008 3:13 PM MDT reply actions

lets chant "fire george karl" tonite at the game!

by Anonymous on Apr 28, 2008 6:10 PM MDT reply actions

First off, can I get anybody who will agree with me that we were better last year and should have resigned Steve Blake?

That wasn't realy possible. Him and his wife wanted to be back in Portland, unless the Nuggets made an insane offer. Under the circumstances, they had to let him go.

But I agree, I wish he was still here.

by Chris C. on Apr 28, 2008 6:19 PM MDT reply actions

Anyone who thinks that this roster needs an overhaul is crazy. We have all the right pieces to win a championship. What we need is a new coach. It is actually good that all this drama is going on because it puts Karl's job even further in jeopardy where it should be. I am so tired of this guy. If he doens't get fired that will be the biggest mistake ever made by the Nuggets franchise.

by Anonymous on Apr 28, 2008 7:52 PM MDT reply actions

For the people in here claiming the Iverson "stunted Melos growth"...Melo stunted his own growth by coasting through games the way he does. Regardless of what you talk about Iversons shooting percentage, Iverson had done more in his career then Melo could ever dream of doing, by Iversons 5th year he was already MVP of the league. There really is no comparison. Iverson was not traded to Denver to stop being who he is simply because some of you want Carmelo to shine. Iverson is a superstar, so no matter where he goes he's not just going to fade into the background. The guy is one of the biggest alpha dogs in all of sports. Carmelo is not a real franchise player and he is not a superstar and at this point, I don't think he'll ever be. Hopefully, Iverson will opt out and leave and go to a team that is 100% committed to winning. And Carmelo can have his team all to hisself again and you people can keep getting fooled that he's a real "superstar" and making excuses. He's not a leader, so give up the dream already. Carmelo doesn't have the will or the heart that makes a great player great. And i'm tired of waiting for him to 'get it'. The other night when he was saying his 'team quit' he should have been looking in the mirror because he has been quiting on and off all season long. And i'm tired about people talking about Team USA, that was two years ago and all he did was lead the team in scoring, J-Kidd was the Leader this past Summer of that team.

When Andre Miller was there, the fans blamed him. I wonder who you will blame when Iverson leaves. Iverson is not a PG, he is a SG/combo gaurd so quit comparing him to Andre Miller. And just the fact that you have someone in here comparing Iverson to Earl Boykins goes to show how Ignorant some of the Nuggets fans are. Iverson dribbles the ball because there seems to be no offensive sets, no cutters to the basket..nothing. If people start moving around instaed of standing there watching him you would see him dribbling less then what he does. Also, don't bring up Iverson being a "ballhog" and not talk about Carmelo....everyone on that team was shooting the ball better then Melo the other night, yet he continued to shoot the ball 5-22 and only had 1 asst. Everytime he got the ball I knew he would shoot it. I was literally disgusted. That Nuggets team has far more problems then Iverson, if it wasn't for him that team would be a .500 team this year in the West.

by Anonymous on Apr 28, 2008 8:15 PM MDT reply actions

The Nuggets need someone to coach them to play defense. The fact is that they go long stretches without trying unlike other teams like the Suns, which are not great defensively but occasionally at least try to guard the opposition. this team will not go anywhere until they improve on D. Coach Karl must go because he is not motivating or teaching players defense. This is strange when I remember how his Sonics teams played aggresive defense. I tihnk at this point in his career he might do better as a college coach.

by Anonymous on Apr 28, 2008 9:02 PM MDT reply actions

One thing I know tonight , Carter can't buy a basket but he stays out there. 3rd period, 9 minutes in. Oh, nice job Carmelo on the blown ally-oop. The train wreck is about to go over the cliff.

by markp on Apr 28, 2008 10:18 PM MDT reply actions

Fuck me, Karl is on his feet and the Nuggets are on a 9-2 tear. Still 3rd period , 4 fouls on Anthony. Go down in flames. I like it.

by markp on Apr 28, 2008 10:22 PM MDT reply actions

fire him now

by faeagd on Apr 29, 2008 8:51 AM MDT reply actions

give him is 50 game season.

by bb on Apr 29, 2008 8:53 AM MDT reply actions

I was really afraid this was going to happen. That is why I didn't even want the Nuggets to make the playoffs. A lot of you trashed me for saying that. But, to me, the best thing for this team is to get a new coach. And I knew that if they made the playoffs GK would stick around as coach. How do you fire a coach who got the team to the playoffs and had a 50 win season. A lot of you fans got your wish. They made the playoffs and you got to see them "play" another four games. Maybe now, we'll both get our wishes. Maybe after these last four games, Kronke will consider this: Even though GK got the team to the playoffs and got 50 wins (which is really not that impressive since over half of the western conference had 50 or more wins), how can you get swept with this much talant on the team ? There's just simply too much money being paid to these players and coach to lose like they did. Maybe a change will come anyway.

by Anonymous on Apr 29, 2008 9:28 AM MDT reply actions

fire everybody and trade for d-wade

by fsdd on May 13, 2008 10:07 AM MDT reply actions

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STIFF LIST (as of 2/7 by Andrew Feinstein)

1. THE NUGGETS AT HOME
How is it possible that a Nuggets team with this much talent can be 7-5 at home?! Things have gotten so bad that fans are clamoring for J.R. Smith to return.

2. CARMELO ANTHONY
Kobe Bryant plays through any and all ailments. Melo uses any and ailments as an excuse not to play.

3. KEVIN LOVE
Just when the T'Wolves are looking better, Love stomps on Luis Scola and lands himself a two-game suspension.

4. CHARLOTTE BOBCATS
The 'Cats have lost 11 straight and are now 3-21 ... in the Eastern Conference! This is what happens when you let an underwear salesman with a Hitler mustache run your team.

5. MIKE BROWN
Dr. Bunsen Honeydew (Google it!) got himself a one-game suspension for making contact with a referee.

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Game 4 Preview: What're we going to learn about Karl and the Nuggets tonight?...

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