Alas, back to normal...
by Andrew Feinstein on Mar 9, 2008 1:57 AM MST
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Ehhh, who needs to beat their division rival in the heat of a monumentally important playoff race with coaching careers and the reputation of an entire organization on the line anyway?So much for getting into the playoffs via a division championship.
While as a die-hard Nuggets fan I was devastated watching our team forget how to play basketball against the Utah Jazz in arguably the most important game of the season, as someone advocating for a coaching change I took solace in ending a few debates that have propped up on this site from George Karl defenders, such as...
The Nuggets are exceptionally well-prepared by the coach, but the players just choose to take certain nights off.
-There's no way a well-prepared team - whose roster talent is equal to, if not better than, their opponent's roster altogether - loses by 27 points and gives up 79 points in one half (43 in the second quarter alone) to their lone division rival - a team they've already faced twice this season. Could you imagine a Phil Jackson or a Jerry Sloan or a Larry Brown (unless he's working for Isiah Thomas) coached team, with essentially evenly matched rosters against their opponent, "playing" like the Nuggets did last night? It's completely inconceivable.
All teams struggle on the second of back-to-back nights.
-The Nuggets are 4-11 on the second of back-to-back nights, the Jazz are 9-6. Moreover, other than Utah having home court advantage, both teams played the night before and likely had to travel very late after their respective games. It's not like Utah had any more rest than Denver did.
The Nuggets players fall prey to distractions on the road that are out of the coach's control.
-They played in Salt Lake City last night after getting in at probably 3am from Denver. What could possibly distract them between 3am and game-time in Salt Lake City? Filling out their membership cards at a local bar so they can party next time they're in town?
The Nuggets have been hit by tough injuries this year.
-The Houston Rockets won their 18th straight game last night (beating the 42-20 New Orleans Hornets), their fifth in a row without superstar center Yao Ming. The Rockets are now 22 games over .500, and yet they've been without their other superstar, Tracy McGrady, for 16 total games, Yao for seven total games and they play in the NBA's toughest division. Oh, and Utah played their third straight game last night without starting small forward - and former All-Star - Andrei Kirilenko. (And yes, I know the Nuggets went 3-2 without Carmelo Anthony earlier this year, but those wins were against Atlanta, New Jersey and Memphis).
The Nuggets always get up for games against superior opponents.
-The Nuggets are 8-13 against current Western Conference playoff teams.
My point? Good coaches prepare their teams to - at the very least - play hard in the most important games. They also find ways to squeeze out a few extra tough wins on the second of back-to-back nights, they don't use injuries as an excuse, and shouldn't need a superior opponent to get their players revved up for any given game. Unfortunately, the only good coach in tonight's game was Jerry Sloan, who's been doing it better than anyone not named Phil Jackson for the last 20 years.
Up next? The Spurs get their revenge against the Nuggets on Monday in San Antonio. If it wasn't such bad karma to bet against your own team, I'd bet the house on the Spurs.
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SnakefromHell checks in,
Good coaches don't fail good tests, and only a dumber coach does not realize a game like this is a test.
If you want to blame the players for being up only against the best competition, it's erased today by the team being completely walloped by the Jazz in this game.
Andrew made a lot of valid points. Phil Jackson would not allow this type of efforts, result to happen. It's not really the "L" that disappoints. It's THE WAY THEY LOSE that does. Giving up too many perimeter shots, totally lethargic and too inconsistent level of energy and focus, players not communicating on either end, total lack of player movement.
If you didn't know the record of the Nuggets and watched this game, you'd think we have a 20-40 record.
"What?!? They're 35-25? You're kidding right?"
I expect that type of reaction.
Worse, GK's reactions when LK picked up a technical after Carter flagrant-fouled Boozer didn't indicate a good coach trying to coach this team to be a GOOD team.
Honestly, if you ask me why is Karl on the sidelines besides coaching, I don't even know what to answer.
The guy is already rich after the Milwaukee job, so it's not like he desperately needs paychecks.
I don't know what he wants out of sitting and sucking lozenge drop when he's supposed to coach.
But you can't blame the players for this type of effort. Have you seen teams coached by top coaches like Phil Jackson or Greg Poppovich show up like a championship contender one night and a lottery team the next?
At least the Sonics are consistent. They're a lottery team and keep their personality.
Good coaches don't fail good tests, and only a dumber coach does not realize a game like this is a test.
If you want to blame the players for being up only against the best competition, it's erased today by the team being completely walloped by the Jazz in this game.
Andrew made a lot of valid points. Phil Jackson would not allow this type of efforts, result to happen. It's not really the "L" that disappoints. It's THE WAY THEY LOSE that does. Giving up too many perimeter shots, totally lethargic and too inconsistent level of energy and focus, players not communicating on either end, total lack of player movement.
If you didn't know the record of the Nuggets and watched this game, you'd think we have a 20-40 record.
"What?!? They're 35-25? You're kidding right?"
I expect that type of reaction.
Worse, GK's reactions when LK picked up a technical after Carter flagrant-fouled Boozer didn't indicate a good coach trying to coach this team to be a GOOD team.
Honestly, if you ask me why is Karl on the sidelines besides coaching, I don't even know what to answer.
The guy is already rich after the Milwaukee job, so it's not like he desperately needs paychecks.
I don't know what he wants out of sitting and sucking lozenge drop when he's supposed to coach.
But you can't blame the players for this type of effort. Have you seen teams coached by top coaches like Phil Jackson or Greg Poppovich show up like a championship contender one night and a lottery team the next?
At least the Sonics are consistent. They're a lottery team and keep their personality.
by Anonymous on Mar 9, 2008 4:21 AM MST reply actions
SnakefromHell checks in again,
Andrew regarding the Nuggets losing the game, I think you ought to save your house.
I think the Nuggets are going to surprise again and beat the Spurs, making us go, "WOOWWWW HERE COME THE NUGGETS!!! THEY WANT TO WIN A CHAMPIONSHIP THIS YEAR!!!"
Then you can bet on your house the team loses in the next game: vs. Memphis.
:D
Well, I have to add good coaches also prepare their teams against any type of competition.
If you have a classroom full of underachieving students, what do you think is the public view going to be? Is it the students or the teacher who messed up? The students? Really? It's why they mess up in the first place they need a teacher.
Andrew regarding the Nuggets losing the game, I think you ought to save your house.
I think the Nuggets are going to surprise again and beat the Spurs, making us go, "WOOWWWW HERE COME THE NUGGETS!!! THEY WANT TO WIN A CHAMPIONSHIP THIS YEAR!!!"
Then you can bet on your house the team loses in the next game: vs. Memphis.
:D
Well, I have to add good coaches also prepare their teams against any type of competition.
If you have a classroom full of underachieving students, what do you think is the public view going to be? Is it the students or the teacher who messed up? The students? Really? It's why they mess up in the first place they need a teacher.
by Anonymous on Mar 9, 2008 4:31 AM MST reply actions
C'mon. It can be argued that Karl just knows his team very well:
"We can't expect to win 75 percent of our games. We just have to figure out what games to go after."(January 23, 2008)
- Maybe this wasn't one of those games.
"We hang around the 10-point mark," Karl said. "They've been beating people (at home) by 25 and 30." (March 1, 2008 after loss to Rockets)
- We didn't keep this one arond ten this time, but Utah's been on fire at home.
"We had a game going where we were going to score enough points to win, but we never got any confidence on the defensive end." (last night)
- That's all it was. And it makes a lot more sense when you consider that Utah is averaging 106 points this season and the Nuggets scored 105. Oh wait... Well maybe he was just referring to the last quarter. The Nuggets won that one by 6 points.
Sometimes the "permissible speech" that comes from George Karl makes me wonder if those lozenges make him see pretty melting colors in the sky.
- TraSoul82
Senior Member, Team Fire George Karl, Nike Talk Division.
"We can't expect to win 75 percent of our games. We just have to figure out what games to go after."(January 23, 2008)
- Maybe this wasn't one of those games.
"We hang around the 10-point mark," Karl said. "They've been beating people (at home) by 25 and 30." (March 1, 2008 after loss to Rockets)
- We didn't keep this one arond ten this time, but Utah's been on fire at home.
"We had a game going where we were going to score enough points to win, but we never got any confidence on the defensive end." (last night)
- That's all it was. And it makes a lot more sense when you consider that Utah is averaging 106 points this season and the Nuggets scored 105. Oh wait... Well maybe he was just referring to the last quarter. The Nuggets won that one by 6 points.
Sometimes the "permissible speech" that comes from George Karl makes me wonder if those lozenges make him see pretty melting colors in the sky.
- TraSoul82
Senior Member, Team Fire George Karl, Nike Talk Division.
by TraSoul82 on Mar 9, 2008 6:16 AM MST reply actions
The creator of this site is such a loser. If he ever moves out of his parents house or gets a girlfriend maybe he can change from being the douchbag that he is!
by Anonymous on Mar 9, 2008 9:43 AM MDT reply actions
^Or maybe all you care is play with your girl than see the Nuggets play.
by Anonymous on Mar 9, 2008 10:46 AM MDT reply actions
Arguably? No, this was easily the most important game of the season. This coach, this team, this organization are a joke.
Ticket prices are up 20% for next year, by the way. But don't question it, it's normal. Just like losing on the second of a back to back is normal. We beat the Spurs, that's as good as a playoff berth..right?
That's the sad thing. Pepsi Center attendance plummeted this year. The mainstays are young parents with small children there for the pizza and Rocky. They don't watch the road games on TV and thus think the Nuggets are sitting pretty and therefore will continue to waste money on them. I wish Denver had the balls to boycott games until something is done.
It will continue to be blamed on how tough the Western Conference is, and apologists will continue to push for a best 16 playoff scenario, but the fact of the matter is - a team with Carmelo Anthony, Allen Iverson and plug yourself and Scott Hastings in with them - a team with those two should be ELITE.
I'm done. Worthless thugs.
Ticket prices are up 20% for next year, by the way. But don't question it, it's normal. Just like losing on the second of a back to back is normal. We beat the Spurs, that's as good as a playoff berth..right?
That's the sad thing. Pepsi Center attendance plummeted this year. The mainstays are young parents with small children there for the pizza and Rocky. They don't watch the road games on TV and thus think the Nuggets are sitting pretty and therefore will continue to waste money on them. I wish Denver had the balls to boycott games until something is done.
It will continue to be blamed on how tough the Western Conference is, and apologists will continue to push for a best 16 playoff scenario, but the fact of the matter is - a team with Carmelo Anthony, Allen Iverson and plug yourself and Scott Hastings in with them - a team with those two should be ELITE.
I'm done. Worthless thugs.
by Anonymous on Mar 9, 2008 12:12 PM MDT reply actions
I've heard about this site for some time and now I am sorry for not visiting sooner. I have watched nearly every Nuggets game on Altitude. Last nite though was movie nite and I caught a few moments in the 4th period. The Nuggets if they are lucky at all will make an 8th round appearance in post season. Then they will lose as they have every year. But after this year's loss I expect there will be changes, hopefuly with Karl resigning. Having the lineup we have and the salarys, (the 3rd highest in the NBA right?)we just are plain underachievers. The friday nite game against San Antonio was not won by the Nuggets-it was lost by San Antonio who had plenty of open shots by their offensive passing but thankfully they could not find the basket. We had some great shots for points but we can't win like that every nite. The best play of the season was against the New look Suns. Now if the Nuggets can do that type of game more often we would be deep in the playoff hunt instead of the outer ring. Make any arguement you want to here but the record speaks for itself. We are fans with a passion for this team. I just don't get it.
by Mark P on Mar 9, 2008 1:05 PM MDT reply actions
Im just as frustrated as the next guy watching these nuggets. It kills me to see this team look as though they have no interest in playing defense. I had to sit and mehmut okur launch 3's back to back no one within 3-4 yards of him. Come on now he is a center there is no reason he should have open 3's. In the past I was neutral on george karl I didn't like or dislike him. But as every game goes on I have to wonder what the hell is this guy doing. Any sports team is going to take on the reflection of there coach and karl looks as if he just doesn't care. How does a team give up 70 something points in the first half and then come out and start the second half even worse. What was that half time speech like? I dont get paid to play sports but I do honestly beleive that any athlete if you jack with there ego they will respond. If your down by 30 and not going anywhere and no one is playing defense why are all the starters still out there? A good coach 5 min after that 3rd period started pulls all his starters and gives the if you dont want to play then dont play speech. I'm going to play the people that want to be out there. I've heard karl give this speech before but never seen him follow through. I take that back he did follow through on one person, JR smith and look how he is plating now. Still not perfect but much improved. When was the last time karl took a T to fire his team up or even get thrown out of a game. Last night game was perfect for that. The offciating was poor and there losing by a lot why not get tossed. After that questionable flagrant why should LK have to question the officails and get a T? Karl has to know that if the nuggets dont get out of the first round this year he is going to be gone, so why not change it up a little and become a hard ass. Call some players out, show some emotion do something other that suck on the cough drops on the bench. All im asking is show something show you care. I'm sick of excuses every team goes through all the same stuff. The ony difference is good teams work through it, and the bad teams complain about it. Lets hope this shalacking will wake these nuggets up and they can go on a run and be the third colorado team team to make a big run at the end of the year just like last years avs, and rockies. im out
Shonuff101
P.S
why do they have to be classified as THUGS
Shonuff101
P.S
why do they have to be classified as THUGS
by shonuff101 on Mar 9, 2008 1:37 PM MDT reply actions
Well, i dont believe anybody could have said it better. The team that i thought could truly win a championship SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!! Last night was how can i say ridiculous. I can see the Nuggs losing a close game, but on NBA.com or ESPN.com, it read that the Utah Jazz gained the lead from the opening tip and never looked back. I mean the Nuggs have
JR Smith(dunker, 3point shooter)
Melo(slasher *thats about it*)
AI(lane stealer, basically the point guard, shooter, driver, and mr. free throw)
Camby(the ENTIRE DEFENSE)
Ed Najera (mr sanitation *does the dirty work*)
Klieza (with defense (the whole team not just him) possible 6th man of the year candidate)
K-Mart (paint controller)
huh George Karl(?!?!?!?!?!?!? *really what does he do, he certainly doesn't coach)
everyone else (lucky sons of guns who get paid to be fans and watch the game)
Too much talent WASTED!
disapointted, disgruntled, head shaking fan................................
JR Smith(dunker, 3point shooter)
Melo(slasher *thats about it*)
AI(lane stealer, basically the point guard, shooter, driver, and mr. free throw)
Camby(the ENTIRE DEFENSE)
Ed Najera (mr sanitation *does the dirty work*)
Klieza (with defense (the whole team not just him) possible 6th man of the year candidate)
K-Mart (paint controller)
huh George Karl(?!?!?!?!?!?!? *really what does he do, he certainly doesn't coach)
everyone else (lucky sons of guns who get paid to be fans and watch the game)
Too much talent WASTED!
disapointted, disgruntled, head shaking fan................................
by The BagHead Nuggets Fan on Mar 10, 2008 12:15 AM MDT reply actions
the nuggets lost?
i guess i was too busy reading about the rockies and the broncos...I'm kidding...but that's the attitude in Denver now...this season is lost...who are the broncos drafting...and boy I hope Garrett Atkins doesn't start the year in slump, who is their 4 and 5 starter going to be this year?
So, with that said...March Madness here we come
i guess i was too busy reading about the rockies and the broncos...I'm kidding...but that's the attitude in Denver now...this season is lost...who are the broncos drafting...and boy I hope Garrett Atkins doesn't start the year in slump, who is their 4 and 5 starter going to be this year?
So, with that said...March Madness here we come
by blue on Mar 10, 2008 3:22 PM MDT reply actions
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